핵심 요약
Nate Herk가 콜(Cole)을 인터뷰한 팟캐스트 압축. 핵심은 우리가 코딩 에이전트(특히 클로드코드)의 '감독(director)'이 되어, 시간이 지날수록 스스로 진화하는 작업 시스템을 만들고, 클로드코드를 코딩을 넘어 '제2의 뇌/AIOS'로 써서 비즈니스를 AI 네이티브로 만드는 것이다.
주요 포인트
- 컨텍스트 '둔감 구간(dumb zone)': 1M 토큰을 지원해도 Opus는 약 25만 토큰부터 성능이 떨어짐 → "100만 토큰이 있다"는 착각은 위험
- 빌드보다 계획에 더 많은 시간을 쓸 것. 검증(verification) 체크를 넣으면 첫 시도 품질이 65~70점 → 92점으로 상승
- 안전: 에이전트는 "하지 마"라고 해도 읽거나 접근할 수 있는 건 결국 건드린다(DB 삭제 우회 스크립트, 실수로 전체 메일링 리스트에 할인코드 발송 사고). "만질 수 있는 건 만진다"고 가정해야 사고를 막음
- 클로드코드를 단순 코딩 도구가 아니라 자기 진화하는 '제2의 뇌/AIOS'로 운영 — 비개발자도 오늘 바로 적용 가능
What would you say by the end of this podcast that everyone will have learned from you? The main thing I want to talk about today is how we can be the director of our coding agents. Everyone is hearing nowadays how large language models can support up to 1 million tokens in their context. That's like the Harry Potter book five times over. Large language models have what's called the dumb zone. With Opus right now, it's usually around 250,000 tokens and I feel like it gets into the dumb zone. It definitely comes with a false sense of security with people now thinking that they have the million. With coding agents, you spend more time planning than you actually do building. Without the verification checks, maybe it's 65 or 70, but now you can get something that is 92 on the first pass. If you tell it never to to wipe a database, it's still going to do that. If you don't allow it to delete a folder, it can still write a script to do that. Recently, something did happen to us. The agent was trying to be proactive and it actually saw something on its task list, but it misinterpreted it and it ended up sending an email to our entire list with a discount code and it was not supposed to go out. If you have the mindset that anything that the agent can read or can touch, you have to assume that it will, even if you never ask it to, that assumption is what's going to save you from having your database deleted. All right, Cole, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to dig in. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, thanks for bringing me on to your podcast, Nate. I'm looking forward to this. Absolutely. Yeah, it's been a long time since we've talked, so I'm excited to hear what you've been up to and to hear kind of like the sauce that you're going to drop on everyone today. So real quick, what would you say by the end of this podcast that everyone will have learned from you? Yeah. So the main thing I want to talk about today is how we can really be the director of our coding agents and specifically cloud code because that's what most people use right now. That's what I use. But really, it's creating that system where you have your your way of working with cloud code that evolves itself over time. And we're going to talk about more than just using it to code. Really, I use my cloud code as my second brain. I like to call it. I know Nate kind of calls it as AIOS. Everyone has their term for it, but really like using cloud code as the tool to make your business AI native. We're going to get into all of that and just some highle strategies that honestly you can start applying today. I love that. Yeah, I'm I'm super excited to dig in because, you know, I don't come from a formal software engineering background and I think that I would I would guess that the majority of my audience doesn't either, but obviously with the the products being called Cloud Code, I think a lot of people that I bring that up to who aren't super deep in the AI space, they obviously think that it's a tool that is for coders and you need to understand code in order to use it. So, um I love that framing. And real quick before we jump in, you know, me and you have we've known each other for quite a bit. I feel like, you know, right when I kind of quit my job and started on the space, you were one of the main channels that I followed and I still follow to stay up to date and to to learn about how to work with AI in the right way. And um we've kind of just been able to see each other grow and and you know, check in. So, I'm really excited to dive in, but I wanted to make sure you got a chance to real quick give everyone a quick intro if they haven't seen your channel before on what you do and um yeah, what you're up to. Yeah, sounds good. You know, before I give an intro though, I kind of want to share something a little bit about what you're talking about. Like when we first met, it's funny because I I actually remember I had um about 50,000 subscribers when Nate first reached out to me and he had like 10,000 and now it's a little bit different. I have like 200,000. You're you're almost 800,000 now, right? Like it's pretty crazy. Um it's been really cool to see you grow, how fast you've grown. But yeah, we were both like smaller channels at the time. Um so yeah, it's it's been a long time. Wild journey. Uh yeah. Anyway, as far as what I actually do, so like Nate said, I come from a software engineering background. So, I've been an engineer my entire life. Ever since I was eight years old, actually, I I started with this language called Scratch. It's developed by MIT. So, I was just like building video games as a kid, like Super Mario Bros. and Pokemon, like really cliche stuff. Um, but that that's what got me into the world of coding. And so I took that through high school, college, got my bachelor's in computer science and um then I had just like a software engineering job in a Fortune 500 company and it was great but I always wanted to be an ent